Cé quoi le Buzz..... [Archives]

Voir la version complète : Cé quoi le Buzz.....

08/02/2005, 13h26

Je me posais la question a savoir c'est le buzz du monde ici pour mon RX Turbo.....

Je post les photos et tout le monde est septique.....

Je comprend pas.....

J'ai eu plein d'insultes et pourtant c'est une des plus belles et plus rapide machine qu'il va y avoir au Québec et vous trouvez ca ben drole....

Quand je post sur Snowest, les réactions sont tres différentes....et en plus la bas, c'est plein de RX1 turbo....

Ca prend plus de temps que prévu, c'est vrai, mais c'est pas une machine de trail avec un Turbo.....

Elvis Gratton avait bien raison quand il parlait de la facon d'agir des québécois.....

Cé poche un peu les gars......

Mais faites-vous en pas.....j'ai gardé plein de posts de ce que vous avez dit....pis y en a qui vous payer.....

08/02/2005, 13h36

Moi suis pas sceptique!!! j'ai surtout hate de voir la bete en personne!!!

Va etre malaaaaaaaaaddeeeeeeeeeee!

08/02/2005, 13h47

08/02/2005, 14h00

Je suis plus sérieux pour la simple raison que c'est plus sérieux.....

08/02/2005, 14h13

tu as bien raison :lol:

08/02/2005, 14h19

Vous en voulez un exemple de la différence du sérieux:

Ce post vien de Snowest, j'ai pris le premier en haut:

Topic Title: DIY Pol 1050/1200cc Watercraft based triple
Created On Mon January 10, 2005 12:19 PM Topic View: Branch ViewThreaded (All Messages)Threaded (Single Messages)Linear

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4Zsnow
Senior Member

Posts: 3434
Joined: Feb 2002
Mon January 10, 2005 12:19 PM Message OptionsView Users ProfilePrivate Message User

I am starting up a "Do-it-yourself" w/pics (in MS Word). This is due to the amount of information requests I have been getting after the completion of mine. I want to help anyone that I can, so I need the help of others that have been down this road like I have so I do not miss anything when I put all this info together. So please reply with helpful tips for me!

BTW, there are a ton of "little things" that will come up. Nothing major just pesky things. PM me if you like.

The other thread is almost dead and I would like to condense the good info into this one. Here is what I have so far:

This is my perspective on what I have found on building a big watercraft based triple from the ground up. I wanted as much “bolt together” with the least amount of fancy fabrication. Since completion I have found cheaper sources for some of the parts, PM if you need help.

With this type of motor package, you can get more (Naturally Aspirated) HP per dollar than having anyone build one for you, plus ported and stock cyl’s can make 230HP or higher depending on the setup. Keep in mind, this DIY paper is geared towards the budget minded person like me. There are many, many decisions during this process but I will be going with the less expensive route without compromising on integrity of the motor or HP!
Having the privilege of working closely on this project with someone that has been involved with these motors for many years, This project has given me an opportunity to tap a large amount of info that I normally would have taken me years to discover on my own. Along with several other owner of these motors and builders I tried to take the best that each had to offer.

By taking the crank case from a triple 1050/1200 Polaris watercraft you can run snowmobile crank parts, cyl’s and so on. It is just like adding a 3rd cyl to a 800 or 700.
The 1050 is based from 3 rods, bearings and cyl’s from a 700. This is the 68mm stroke motor. You can use big bore 770 stuff to make an 1140cc.
The 1050 is the least expensive route to go.
The 1200 is a 70mm stroke based motor. It is made up of the rods, bearings and cyl’s from a 800.

Crank case

Any 1050/1200 Polaris watercraft crank case will work for this job. All you need is the two case halves. If you get a complete motor to rob it from, hang on to the domes, water covers, reed cages w/stuffers and water rail. You may want to use them later for your motor.
If you go with a 1200 you will need to have the case fly cut out to accept the 800 (or 85mm) cyl’s . If you are building a 1050, this will not have to be done to the case.
You can use a twin recoil/mag housing. Is a bolt on deal. However, you may need to work the inside of it where the stator plate goes depending on what type of ign system you decided to go with. Union Bay Racing has a billet mag housing that will allow you to use several styles of ign stators and incorporates the use of a v-belt driven water pump found on older Fuji motors from Polaris. Very reliable and inexpensive water pump. Note: the shock tower on mag (right) side may or may not need to be notched if the domestic twin mag/recoil housing is used in conjunction with a 12.5” Center to Center belt (same as any Gen 2 twin ###1065 Pol p/n).
The front of the top case has the provisions cast into it the same as the twin for a water rail. Having this milled flat and two holes taped with the water passage in the center of them will allow a bolt on style water rail. If you still have the water rail from the top of the motor, this can be used as a template. It can also be used for this application. All of the billet water rails that I have seen are basically identical as far as bolt pattern. I have seen home made rails that use a 0-ring just like what comes on the twin. This works if you chamfer the passage for the O-ring.

If you decide to use the UBR mag housing, there are a few things to discuss on the use of it. Allen at UBR will cover this with anyone that purchases it from UBR.
Mock up, mock up. You can never mock this thing up too much. To make sure everything fits perfectly. You will have to make sure the hole in center of stator plate will be big enough for the crank. Make sure you get the water pump pulley from Allen when you purchase the housing. Starter cup, depending on what type of flywheel and or ign system you use, you will need to make sure the starter cup will contact the pawl. The water pump may need to be trimmed just under the adjuster slot to let the belt go on the pulleys. No big deal, just though I would throw that in.

One thing to look at when selecting a case is to make sure the crank bearings have not worn into the case. Feel the edges for “knifing” and make sure the bearing surface is smooth. It is OK to see the places where bearings have been living, just not feel impressions in the aluminum. This will ensure you have a good “bite” on the bearings when the case is mated with the crank.
One last thing before assembly, you must chamfer oil hole on the PTO side with a small carbide. The object is to make it give oil to the sides of the bearings as the bearing with the snap ring covers up the factory oiling hole. The mag side is done in this fashion from the factory. Bottom line, make the PTO end oil hole look like the mag end oil hole.

Crank

There are several different ways to go about this.
One is to purchase a new crank that is built for this purpose. Many shops out there can supply them, I went to Union Bay Racing because they are local for me.
Another way is to send two twin cranks to a shop like SLP in Idaho to have them rebuilt into your application. From some of the experts on these I have been told that the 70mm cranks do not need to be welded but the smaller 68mm ones do when buying new. Something about the “glue” on them is just as good as welding. I did not have my 70mm crank welded.
The PTO end should have a wide bearing (5207-ILT) and a narrow bearing (6207NX18). The narrow bearing being closest to the end should be of the type that incorporates a crank locating snap ring on it.
There is another snap ring (crank locator) that goes on the mag end. It sits in the case and not on a bearing. This is ring is needed if a twin housing is used and is used with a watercraft crank as well.
On the UBR style, a pto seal is used (Being a metal seal coated in rubber) and the little square nubbies cut off flush with a razor blade.

Ignition

Several different direction to go on ignition. There are many that have not been tried or are being tried as I type this. The two most common ones used to this point that I am aware of are 1984-1989 Indy 650 (I am told that the old Polaris Centurian is the same) and XCR/Ultra ignitions.
Pros/cons of these two systems:
-650: Pros. Easy to find, lots of aftermarket support, low cost.
Cons: 120 watt lighting coil, timing curve is conservative in low RPMs.

-XCR/Ultra: Pros. 280 Watt lighting coil, better low end timing curve.
Cons. Expensive, harder to find, aftermarket support is sparse.
I went with the 650. I got a complete system for under 100 bucks on ebay from a ’89 650. As far as the timing curve goes, once you find the peak torque on these motors, set 16* BTDC at that RPM. I didn’t use a dyno, I just set mine at 16* @ 8000 RPM. This is a good base line setup. These motors make so much torque on the bottom (even without VES jugs) that the little extra timing and lighting coil power was not worth the cost to me. I am able to run my hot grips on high and a PIAA head light, LED tail light with power to spare. Hot Grips pull 15 watts, the headlight pulls 65 watts. I did use a Autometer brand temp gauge set up with a rectifier from Radio Shack ($3) but it pulled way to much power to run the rectifier. So I went with a dummy light instead. A XCR/Ultra alternator would do it with power to spare.
The flywheel for either system will have to be re-tapered to match the crank taper. UBR in Seattle did mine.
There are some folks out there that use the twin recoil housing and water pump with the twin stator. I don’t know which flywheel and CDI they are using, but I think this route has some real advantages if you consider using a stock mag housing. I say this because the stock twin mag housing needs to be machined slightly to make the stators from the triples fit. If I were to go this route I would be curious on where the flywheel would need to be in relation to the stator, how deep do you cut the taper? Not rocket science, but would have to be addressed. These little things (among the hidden ones, air gap on a triple flywheel for example) along with using the proven V-belt pump is why I went with a UBR mag housing. It is as “bolt on” as you can get.

Pistons:
In one word, ELKO. You cannot beat the stock Polaris piston. It is well worth one’s while to buck up and spring for the stock ones. This can be a subject of great debate, but this is my recommendation. As far as the new coated pistons go, unless you have issues with sticking pistons, the older non-coated will work fine. Plus they are much, much cheaper as a kit (rings, pin and piston).

Cylinders:
Stock, valved or non-valved. Doesn’t mater, however, I would highly recommend the newer valved jugs. Better design all-around.
I had Doug Ruth do his “race port” on my brand new non-VES jugs.
Always check your port timing. What you should be shooting for, believe it or not, is as close to Polaris twin as possible. Just over 200* of exhaust duration and 130* of transfer.
I could have had the timing built into my porting, but I only sent my jugs and did not know what my timing was anyway. In the end, I had to shim my cyl’s .040” to get these numbers.

Domes:

I used sea level stock watercraft domes and cut them to fit. I ended up with a 0.063 squish and 12.7:1 compression. Very happy with this so far, I don’t ride much over 7K. I used a 1pc water cover from Randy at WATCON.COM. It is built for the watercraft use but worked perfectly for me. It was cheaper than UBR. There are many ways to over come this parts issue. Kelsy at RKT, Brad Wursten (1200psi on the 4m)would be good sources.

Carbs:
Several was to go on this one. First off, the reed cage is slightly larger on the w/c cases than the snow cases. You can still use stock boots by modifying the bolt holes. However you will need the reeds from a watercraft. Advice, if you have a ported motor, there is a 10HP delta between V-force and stock. If V-force is too rich for your blood, then there is always Carbon Fiber reeds. Fantom carbon fiber reeds are proven and much cheaper with the contact listed in the Vendor section.
Round slides, flat slides and D-slides have all been used on these motors with great success. It all depends on what you want to do with your sled. In my case, I used the UBR carb adaptors and 42mm flatslide rack. This is the easiest on your thumb and has a very light pull. The D-slides would be 2nd place for every day throttle pull. I would call the roundslide big bores more of a racing application. There is not as much performance gain for the trail to overcome the need for Popeye arms to run them.
I picked up a set of 38mm 2001 Thunder cat flatslides. I had SLP bore them out to 42mm. Had to modify them to fit the cyl spacing on the watercraft. The outer two carbs needs to come in 2mm towards the center one. I was able to do this by purchasing two of the fuel inlets that Polaris uses on the twin and mock up to the motor. I based the jetting off the 2001 Polaris 800. The mid ranged ended up being very lean and had to order the richest needles that Polaris sells. The needles that came in the cat were already the richest, but they didn’t do the job.
I installed Pat’s Performance power jets and have been very happy with them.

Fuel system:
I found two brand new Mikuni hi-flow 70LPH, 3/8” inlet fuel pumps on eBay for $20 each. They are used on the XCR for sure. I mounted them below and in between the carbs on the bulkhead. I used a 2” raised tunnel so it left a perfect place for them. I looked for a long time to find two fuel shut offs in the 3/8” flavor. They are hard to come by. The only sleds that I have seen them on were newer 800 twins. I use a P/N from the Polaris manual and got two 5/16” sent to me. Go figure………
The edge tank I was using had one 5/16” bulkhead fitting in it already, so I ordered up a bulkhead fitting and made my own pick up. (hoping they wouldn’t send me 3/8 stuff after I decided to go with 5/16)
Using the polycarbonate fuel line in a 5/16 size, I had to heat it slightly to get it over the 3/8 inlets on the pumps.
Primer system was simple, however I would not trust the check valve in the Mikuni primer. I highly recommend installing the one Polaris used in the 99 twins. The Mikuni built in check valve has been known to fail. I installed knock in’s for the 3/32” fuel line AFTER the carb and T’d them all up nicely. This took a while to get everything to route perfectly. Take your time…..

Vendors used
I will list the cost of things I have purchased. Preface: None of the following is intended as a "plug" for any vendor, unless stated so. There are some vendors that have a product that are hands down the way to go from others that have traveled this path before.

Engine plate: Brad Wursten (435) 753 2661
Brad makes all type of motor plates, ignition stuff for many big name shops.
He also makes carb adaptors, water rails, and domes for our motors. He is a
builder of watercraft based motors as well. Around $200 for motor plate is what I
paid. Very important part of the install. You can use the XLT style straps instead, but is a
good idea to tie them together. Brad's plate makes it simple and he has been making
them for Tison, UBR and many others for years.

Mag housing: Union Bay Racing (360) 659-6840
UBR makes a ton of parts for these and build one bad to the bone motor.
They also offer all the machine work you need done to the case.
Carb adaptors, water rails, heads and domes and so one.
Machine case for mag housing $100
Taper Flywheel $75
Water rail $125
Machine case for water rail $75
Mag housing $225
$150 to turn a 1050 into a 1200 case.

Pipes: CrankShop (877)-878-9692
Not as intended as a plug, but it is very, very hard to beat the performance
of the CrankShop pipes. They will build your pipes if you send them
your motor plate. Let me stress that this method is not the most custom. Kurt
at CS will tell you upfront that a stock hood will not fit. He is correct. If you
want to run a stock hood, you best get the kit form and have them built
custom for you.
$750.00

Clutch: HRP (616) 874-6338
This is an area of discussion. My opinion is that anything making over 200
HP at elevation, should have a quad cam clutch. IMO, the HRP is very hard to beat and
customer service is very, very high.
$1200.00

Watercover: WATCON.COM (360) 692-3492
I used some stock domes with Rany’s cover. He is one of the top experts in
watercraft racing. He was part of Polaris Racing before they gave up PWC.
He is a ton of help. Gaskets, cyl’s, domes, water rails, crank cases….etc.
Very, very easy to deal with and a great person.
$tons spent here, too much to list.

Powerjets: Pat’s Performance (253) 261 1046
Pat runs these motors. He has a wealth of knowledge here. Has many hours
Power Jets, Carbon fiber reeds, Fantom rope etc.
$25 per hole for powerjets

Starter Rope: Bud Westerman (206) 898 8609
Fantom rope. Super strong and light. Fantom Carbon Fiber Reeds.
$20-26 for rope (shipped).
$25/hole for reeds

Plug wires: Superbeast baby! Mike is a builder of his own DIY watercraft as well .

-------------------------
DIY Polaris 1200 Watercraft Tison chassis
Doug Ruth race port
Built by 4Z

4Z pics
SAWS

Edited: Tue February 08, 2005 at 10:40 AM by 4Zsnow

1200 crank new.JPG (67 KB)
case end milled for mag housing.jpg (76 KB)
coolant rail.JPG (133 KB)
coolant rail2.JPG (131 KB)
fuel lines x2.JPG (126 KB)
HPNX0016.JPG (134 KB)
HPNX0017.JPG (123 KB)
HPNX0020.JPG (126 KB)
mag housing mock up.jpg (66 KB)
oil hole mag.JPG (112 KB)
oil hole.JPG (128 KB)
rail milled1.JPG (56 KB)
update9 04.JPG (106 KB)

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Je penses qu'on est loin de ca avec des smilies partout!!!!

Vous trouvez pas?

08/02/2005, 14h22

Pis en plus, ben il y a 2 pages de commentaires techniques que les gars ont postés pour l'aider.....

J'ai pas vu un seul post qui ressemble a ce que je vois ici........

WAKE UP..........ca fait dur....

A partir de maintenant, je vais écrire des posts intelligents (pour la plupart)......

Stopo

08/02/2005, 14h23

Je ne sais pas ce que tu dis aux américains sur Snow west, mais si tu leur as servis toute les Monsteries suivante bien ils doivent devenir moins sérieux avec toi.

Pas compliqué , au mois de Novembre tu nous annonces la venue d'un RAM Turbo diésel avec 800hp(LÀ JE SUIS PLUS QUE SEPTIQUE), mais tu va l'avoir seulement au printemps. En attendant tu vas faire l'épicerie avec ta Corvette. Vous devez pas être gras dans la famille. ahahahah!

Ensuite, tu nous annonces l'achat d'un Warrior "Bleu" qui aura un turbo stage 4 ou 5 sait plus. Tu vas clancher tout le monde avec, possible, mais le problème, c'est que tu devais l'avoir le 6 Janvier , et là on est le 8 Février et le Warrior que tu nous montre en plus......... est "Noir". À date, tu n'as pas clanché bien du monde avec...entk. Ma piste était prête . J'ai bien des preuves.

Des gars comme les chums à Lacoche qui sont en train d'en mettre un au point, on ne les entend pas du tout, mais ils vont peut-être te sortir de tes bottes. Moi je m'organiserais à ta place pour l'avoir au plus criss, pour être le coq, au moins une semaine dans l'hiver. ahahahahahah

08/02/2005, 14h25

A partir de maintenant, je vais écrire des posts intelligents (pour la plupart)......

Tu vas travailler fort Monster :lolsign: Je te taquine :poke: ;).

Bon p.m.

Jo :angel:

08/02/2005, 14h29

Le plus drole c est qu il est capable d etre tres intelligent......si y veut......... :lol: si y tombe vraiement dans le techniques intelligents y va en perdre plusieurs en chemin :lol:

08/02/2005, 14h30

Stopo, je n'ai jamais dit qu'il serait pret le 8 janvier...

J'ai dit que les rods arrivent le 5 janviers, nuance....

Mon Dodge, bien j'attend juste que l'option GWA (toit ouvrant) soit disponible avant de l'avoir...apres on va le monter a 800hp....

Il y a un gars sur Snowest qui a commencé cet ÉTÉ un RX mountain turbo avec frame homemade, il est pas encore pret.

Je sais tres bien que lacoche est a s'en faire un....et j'ai bien hate de rouler contre lui....Je sais bien qu'il va me faire une bonne pompétition, mais suis confiant de rouler en avant ;)

Et finalement je vous ferais remarqué que je me suis défendu au début contre vos attaques et que depuis, j'ai compris que la meilleure défensive, c'est l'attaque....

La ou je veux en venir, c'est qu'il ne se passe plus rien sur la performance ici....seulement sur le blastage....

Faudrais peut-etre penser a revenir a la base......

Vous croyez pas?

08/02/2005, 14h34

08/02/2005, 14h53

Voila quelque chose d'intelligent la PERFO c est supposé etre de la PERFO pas du blastage d'ado en surplus de testostérone, j ai rien contre le fait de s'amuser et rire un peu mais dans ce cas pourquoi pas une section

ON DECONNE ET ON S AMUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)

hummmm tu devrait changé de section , si tu vien ici pour seulement faire la smath , a moin que tu est des sujet de perfo

on jase autant de perfo que de niaiserie ici

08/02/2005, 15h09

Justement powerking tu résume ma pensée je vais effectivement laché la section perfo car c est pas ici que je deviendrai plus SMATH au niveau performance. J étais la pour apprendre quelque chose et comme tu le dis si bien vous jaser beaucoup plus niaiseries qu autre chose. Sans rancune et au plaisir de ne plus te vexer pauvre ti pit.!! ;)

08/02/2005, 15h15

:lol:

au plaisir sans rancune

Nick_77

08/02/2005, 17h01

http://community.webshots.com/album/136479977uLzWoj c le lien pour voir les photos du skid du gars si ca vous intéresse, assez violent. :shock:

08/02/2005, 17h07

C ca que je disais quand je parlais d'un système d'entraide sur ce site!!!

Comment pensez vous que j'ai monté mon ls1 de 346ci à 670hp????

EN s'aidant au lieu de toute garder secret, tout le monde en bénéficie... c vrai que malheureusement y a toujours des parasites, mais faut vivre avec... Comme ca, on pourrais avoir des gars d'icitte qui serais drolement compétitifs sur le circuit, c sur (y)

Jamon

08/02/2005, 17h52

eh monster, si tu commence à écrire des post intelligent, ton nombre de post ne montra pas ben ben! mouahaha!

08/02/2005, 17h57

Y vas peut-etre monté moins vite....

Mais y faut pas oublié qu'il faut en rajouter 1,400 au nombre qui est indiqué....

Donc, je n'ai pas a m'en faire...

Et si ca peut aider la cause de la section...pourquoi pas...

Jamon

08/02/2005, 17h59

mmmhhh, il va falloir filtré tes ancien post pour avoir un vrai chiffre!

Stopo

08/02/2005, 18h18

Non non M.Gomerey, je n'ai jamais commandité un ti-gars de Shawinigan! Son Warrior Turbo, c'est rien qu'une photo!
http://www.motoneigeauquebec.com/album_pic.php?pic_id=1054

08/02/2005, 22h17

hahah!! on comprends asteures!!!!!

09/02/2005, 08h24

on est quand meme loin du 18 decembre la ou tu etait supposser passer tout le monde sur le lac au cabanon ....pour l'instant l hiver est presqua fini pis ta rien fait !!!!!!!!!!!!...........

selon une source ton rx1 turbo c est de la fiction c est histoire la !!!!!!! un gars de shawinigan ma dit que tu nous monte tout un bateaux!!!!!!!!!!!!.............est-ce vrai??????????

plusieur ici pense que oui!! :P

09/02/2005, 08h31

lafusee

09/02/2005, 08h37

Ahhhhhhhh

C'est bon de donner un show ici......

Mais y me semble que ca fait longtemps qu'on est sur le meme numéro....

Celui de la fiction....y commence a etre usé....

Faudrais trouver autre chose.....

Pis en passant, le 18 c'était sur la GLACE....

Mais la semaine avant...je t'ai pas vu....mais j'aurais payer pour voir la face que t'a fait au téléphone quand lacoche t'a dis que le M7 était en avant de tout le monde jusqu'au milieu du lac.....

Pis encore une chance que j'avait pas de haute.....

:stop: wooooooooo !!!

s'était sur la glace le 18 pisss???

j'ai débarquer ma machine sur le lac avec un pont 1.5 pas de pinne :evil:

pis j'ai tirer des run le vendredi avec lacoche au moin une dixaine!

j'ai coucher la`prêt pour le lendemain!

arrête monster de trouver des défette
tu a tout simplement .........encore une fois

chier dans tes culottessssssssssssssss :???:

09/02/2005, 08h39

Ahhhhhhhhhh

La fusée....je t'ai pas vu le 11!!!!!!

Pis la glace, a l'avenir...ca ne me derangera pas.....

Mais le 11....c'était ben ben drole......

lafusee

09/02/2005, 08h44

Ahhhhhhhhhh

La fusée....je t'ai pas vu le 11!!!!!!

Pis la glace, a l'avenir...ca ne me derangera pas.....

Mais le 11....c'était ben ben drole......

sé quoi le rapport avec le 11 le ressemblement s'était le 18 dec!

le 11 dec???????????????????........rien avoir l'dedansssssss

09/02/2005, 08h49

Choque toé pas.....

En passant, tu es devenu une vedette sur Snowest.....

http://www.snowest.com/fusetalk/messageview.cfm?catid=3&threadid=177683

lafusée :mosh:

09/02/2005, 08h59

comme la fusee le mentionne le rendez vous c etait le 18 ....................................pas le 11...................

deserteur!!!!! :roll:

09/02/2005, 09h01

Ahhhhhhhhhh

Cé pas grave.....

J'aurais ben ben aimé etre un oiseau pour voir la face que t'a fait....

09/02/2005, 09h08

lal face que j ai fait ?????????ou ca???????? quand??????